HTML Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

ffive · Aug 23, 2023

Breezerr said:
My question was where you got the information about the current premise, not the old one.

Like i said, you'd have to dig through the thread for the mention of it. Although there's always a question of which parts are just speculations, and which are actual dev quotes from discord or wherever.

E.g, if you dig around the patreon reports, you can find

You must be registered to see the links

which suggest the whole revamp was more of a spur of the moment thing:

For example: as noted in the 1.12 reflections post, in the two months of 1.12's development, for 50% of that time the action was set in Scotland, not Malaysia, and the sex scenes were totally different (involving selecting a partner from Tinder, and having sex with him in a safehouse as part of a training exercise).

Like I said...these scenes weren't working for me in testing. I had to figure out why and also invent a solution (changing the mission spec from "hooker" to "topless barmaid" so the training sequence could be cut; deciding to switch the action to a new country and repurpose the Max scene instead)

Which is... quite a thing. "So, i've changed the story premise because i needed excuse to cut a scene from the introduction that i struggled with. How will that impact the fact the heroine was supposed to be undercover hooker and have tons of sex as such? lol, i didn't even think about it."

However, you can also find in these reports that

You must be registered to see the links

:

Looking at the list, one of the things I’m most excited about is the variety of sex quests that’ll become available after the heroine settles into her deep cover role as a hooker for the club. There are 32 hooker quests planned so far – some in the club, some that she’ll be called out to.

This was posted after the bargirl revamp was already in place. So, yeah. People who think they'll spend entire game as a bargirl are in for some severe disappointment.

asdfasdf12341234ACSACA · Aug 23, 2023

ffive said:
Like i said, you'd have to dig through the thread for the mention of it. Although there's always a question of which parts are just speculations, and which are actual dev quotes from discord or wherever.

E.g, if you dig around the patreon reports, you can find
You must be registered to see the links
which suggest the whole revamp was more of a spur of the moment thing:

Which is... quite a thing. "So, i've changed the story premise because i needed excuse to cut a scene from the introduction that i struggled with. How will that impact the fact the heroine was supposed to be undercover hooker and have tons of sex as such? lol, i didn't even think about it."

However, you can also find in these reports that
You must be registered to see the links
:

This was posted after the bargirl revamp was already in place. So, yeah. People who think they'll spend entire game as a bargirl are in for some severe disappointment.

If you go far back into this very same thread, you can find some posts from Crushtation himself that explains how the game came to be. Don't quote me on this, but the summarised version is: "I initially wanted to make whoring simulator. A good friend told me that wouldn't be successful and I needed a decent story, so the spy thing came to be".

Basically, "you become turbo whore" was always the initial thought. I don't like it mind you, and it is undeniable that the game was never advertised as that.

boobthief · Aug 23, 2023

Diconica said:
Modifying and SVG is the same as modifying HTML open one up and look at it in a text editor.

Yeah... I once spent a few months of my life programmatically generating SVGs confined by multiple legal regulations that are displayed in at least a few million households. Probably safe to assume I know about and like SVGs.

I still don't think anyone should screw around with a working super-good-enough workflow. This is an indie game. They have a talented artist creating great assets they successfully integrate into their game. And nobody is complaining about the avatar!

Do you see? You or I can think of valid ways to improve the code but none of this is impeding them from releasing more content regularly.

Diconica said:
This discussion started over how much work he put into the last release.
My point was he didn't do much and it didn't comes to but about 3 days works out of the 180 or so days he had.

Agree! Except I think they put in many more days of unproductive work.

From a project management perspective, one problem is the minimum timescale is one week not days or even hours. But there's nobody managing or tracking that or asking about work done yesterday, being done today, problems. So back to the old school question of how did a 60 day project take 180 days... Answer: one day at a time.

But I want to end on a positive: the reason why we and so many other people discuss this game is that they really enjoy it and it has great potential. It's far easier to criticize than create, fun too. I hope they stop listening to the sycophants on Patreon, take their medicine from the last update, and work to a release schedule.

MrAnarchy · Aug 23, 2023

boobthief said:
Yeah... I once spent a few months of my life programmatically generating SVGs confined by multiple legal regulations that are displayed in at least a few million households. Probably safe to assume I know about and like SVGs.

I still don't think anyone should screw around with a working super-good-enough workflow. This is an indie game. They have a talented artist creating great assets they successfully integrate into their game. And nobody is complaining about the avatar!

Do you see? You or I can think of valid ways to improve the code but none of this is impeding them from releasing more content regularly.

Agree! Except I think they put in many more days of unproductive work.

From a project management perspective, one problem is the minimum timescale is one week not days or even hours. But there's nobody managing or tracking that or asking about work done yesterday, being done today, problems. So back to the old school question of how did a 60 day project take 180 days... Answer: one day at a time.

But I want to end on a positive: the reason why we and so many other people discuss this game is that they really enjoy it and it has great potential. It's far easier to criticize than create, fun too. I hope they stop listening to the sycophants on Patreon, take their medicine from the last update, and work to a release schedule.

From what I’ve seen, the posters on Patreon have actually been pretty critical of the last update, all the sycophants have moved to the toxic ass discord.

Breezerr · Aug 24, 2023

ffive said:
Like i said, you'd have to dig through the thread for the mention of it. Although there's always a question of which parts are just speculations, and which are actual dev quotes from discord or wherever.

E.g, if you dig around the patreon reports, you can find
You must be registered to see the links
which suggest the whole revamp was more of a spur of the moment thing:

Which is... quite a thing. "So, i've changed the story premise because i needed excuse to cut a scene from the introduction that i struggled with. How will that impact the fact the heroine was supposed to be undercover hooker and have tons of sex as such? lol, i didn't even think about it."

However, you can also find in these reports that
You must be registered to see the links
:

This was posted after the bargirl revamp was already in place. So, yeah. People who think they'll spend entire game as a bargirl are in for some severe disappointment.

Thank you.
I agree with you, that people will be disappointed if they expect something else from crush.
However, I don't think it's their fault if someone asks for a barkeeper-only route. The way crush is promoting the game, it would fit right in. You can't expect everyone to read hundreds of Patreon posts.

By the way, I think you mix up the words. If I'm correct, bargirls are the hookers.

ffive · Aug 24, 2023

Breezerr said:
By the way, I think you mix up the words. If I'm correct, bargirls are the hookers.

Am not sure, i was using the terms in the context of the game -- the bargirls serve the customers beer while working topless, and the hookers fuck the clients for money and "dance" i.e. publicly masturbate and have sex with one another on the stage.

You're right, should've been barmaid not bargirl :V

boobthief · Aug 25, 2023

MrAnarchy said:
From what I’ve seen, the posters on Patreon have actually been pretty critical of the last update, all the sycophants have moved to the toxic ass discord.

The latest Patreon comments seem to be at least 60:40 nauseatingly positive:

Patreon simps said:
Don’t be so hard on yourself, Crush. You’re still the best storyteller out of all game creators...

Please don't be disheartened. It seems to me that you agonised over this release and wanted to get the theme of the story's corruption and compromise back to the fore following several scenes of badass spy Kate...

I had to think on it, but I really loved the update...

To me Kate’s reaction made perfect sense... While I don’t want you to not take in other people’s feedback I also don’t want you taking criticism too personally...

Sorry that we are a bunch of pervs...

No comments I've seen address the hype cycle: the longer you take to release, the more people expect. If you say you're polishing scenes for six weeks then people rightly expect some substantial fucking content.

It's a solved problem: release early, release often to allow for the occasional misfiring update and to get feedback then act on it. Always be working towards the demo.

Next update, late December 2023?

Deniz31 · Aug 25, 2023

People on discord trying to find excuses and rationalize for her to suddenly become a prude on bj scene be like:

XJ347 · Aug 26, 2023

Being sex positive doesn't mean being sexually abused doesn't hurt you mentally. Shouldn't matter if Kate is a prude or a black widow, this isn't mentally easy for her. You can get used to it, like losing a parent but it take time getting used to the change.

Think of it like putting your hand over a flame. Reluctant Kate will take her hand off REALLY fast, slutty Kate probably can keep her hand on it longer. A black widow Kate might not even move her hand BUT she will notice that it fucking hurts!

Overall though I think it's odd that people want to completely ignore it the trauma. This is a major component of corruption, breaking down someone defenses and molding them into someone else. Kate is being groomed into being a whore, and that can still happen after having a small breakdown. Actually it's kind of important. Corruption doesn't work if you are start completely deprived.

Is the problem that some people don't see this as a corruption game?

Do I think this update is written poorly? Sort of yeah, this trauma scene should be moved to when Connor first forces himself on you... or changed to describe it so it doesn't feel so out of no where, and better yet edited for the type of Kate.

ffive · Aug 26, 2023

XJ347 said:
Overall though I think it's odd that people want to completely ignore it the trauma.

I don't think people want to ignore the trauma. They just balk at things proceeding seemingly out of order, with the trauma explosion over a blowjob when the heroine was already made to fully fuck multiple people (and one of them repeatedly) with little to no apparent reaction from her other than "man it was kinda hot".

MrAnarchy · Aug 26, 2023

^This right here. It’s not the fact that there is trauma, it’s that the particular meltdown she’s having isn’t consistent with where we are in the story.

ZebCaff · Aug 26, 2023

XJ347 said:
Do I think this update is written poorly? Sort of yeah, this trauma scene should be moved to when Connor first forces himself on you... or changed to describe it so it doesn't feel so out of no where, and better yet edited for the type of Kate.

Yes - there's nothing wrong with the update as written, but it absolutely does need a trigger event - maybe something Ian says during the black bag at the medical office, which festers in her brain at night and on the way to work. Then having the BJ sprung on her u8nexpectedly can just push her over the edge. Having a serious wobble in her resolve is dramatically a good thing.

MrAnarchy · Aug 26, 2023

Deniz31 said:
People on discord trying to find excuses and rationalize for her to suddenly become a prude on bj scene be like:
View attachment 2878427

I’m convinced that half the people on there are ashamed of themselves to be playing a porn game so they desperately perform mental gymnastics to convince themselves that they aren’t and when they give out suggestions it’s to force the game into not being “lewd”.

Diconica · Aug 26, 2023

There is no reason he couldn't track a stat like corruption, smuttiness, lust... and used it to ensure he had a measure for the correct reaction at the point in game.
He also could have story board it and that would have helped him keep track of stuff far easier.
There is software for doing it. Or one can even use HTML and SVG to make one real easy. Even software like Krita's SVG system can be used easily to handle it. Create a box with SVG and set the internal to an image and you can write text in the box regarding the scene. Then create another for the next scene and draw a line from one to the next.
For that matter you can do it the old fashion way with pencil and paper.

With the free tools available to help with such issues I'm not sure even if inexperience is even a good enough excuse for this.
It seems after 6 years you would have at least take the time to look for stuff to make such issues simpler to keep track of.

rbx4 · Aug 26, 2023

Diconica said:
With the free tools available to help with such issues I'm not sure even if inexperience is even a good enough excuse for this.
It seems after 6 years you would have at least take the time to look for stuff to make such issues simpler to keep track of.

I'm not sure how long inexperience will be applied to Crush, but for sure 6 or 7 years seems a stretch. I don't believe that inefficiency here has anything to do with technology--and I predict that Crush would not be much better or faster with the best technology than with the worst. I could speculate on the real issue, and I have, but this isn't the place to start mentioning personal speculations about real people. The game went from having many stats to having (from what I hear) none, which looks like in part a response to critique (I saw particular posts about this).

I'm here mostly for the bizarreness of this whole thread, but a secondary interest is the unusual complete overhaul of the game that took place. I think that normally someone is trying to create something similar to what they envision for a game in the first public release. To have something so different now is interesting. It suggests to me to again potentially stem from the early apparent complete shock and dismay that negative feedback of FA could have ever happened from any person. To not expect any negative feedback on the Internet, I don't know how someone gets there.

asdfasdf12341234ACSACA · Aug 26, 2023

rbx4 said:
I'm not sure how long inexperience will be applied to Crush, but for sure 6 or 7 years seems a stretch. I don't believe that inefficiency here has anything to do with technology--and I predict that Crush would not be much better or faster with the best technology than with the worst. I could speculate on the real issue, and I have, but this isn't the place to start mentioning personal speculations about real people. The game went from having many stats to having (from what I hear) none, which looks like in part a response to critique (I saw particular posts about this).

I'm here mostly for the bizarreness of this whole thread, but a secondary interest is the unusual complete overhaul of the game that took place. I think that normally someone is trying to create something similar to what they envision for a game in the first public release. To have something so different now is interesting. It suggests to me to again potentially stem from the early apparent complete shock and dismay that negative feedback of FA could have ever happened from any person. To not expect any negative feedback on the Internet, I don't know how someone gets there.

The (latest) reboot and, especially the removal of the lifepath (technically, hiding, the code is still there) is based on one reason (note that it isn't a *logical* reason): "If I have to take into account all these variables and choices I will never get to Bangkok! Therefore I must remove those parts of the game altogether"

It is of course really silly considering the variables weren't even being used to begin with, and he could have chosen to ignore them altogether like he already did (seriously, back in the days you had stuff like "+1 Riding Motorcycle" and "+1 Rock Music")

Davkin · Aug 27, 2023

Crackcocaine said:
Feels like he's just writing a novel now, lol.

George RR Martin might be faster than him at writing novels at this point. Honestly, I'd be happy if he could just make this a linear graphic novel. Gives me closure that way.

vicaddict · Aug 27, 2023

asdfasdf12341234ACSACA said:
The (latest) reboot and, especially the removal of the lifepath (technically, hiding, the code is still there) is based on one reason (note that it isn't a *logical* reason): "If I have to take into account all these variables and choices I will never get to Bangkok! Therefore I must remove those parts of the game altogether"

It is of course really silly considering the variables weren't even being used to begin with, and he could have chosen to ignore them altogether like he already did (seriously, back in the days you had stuff like "+1 Riding Motorcycle" and "+1 Rock Music")

You don't even to go that far back. Even in the current evolution of the game there are several mechanics that don't get used. From the very beginning there was a mechanic where people liked or disliked certain anwers. It is still there. That has never been used. He introduced a suspicion mechanic not too long ago. Not sure what for and how it is supposed to work with a linear story to begin with. I am pretty sure that sex skills are still in the game and so is the dice rolling and occasionally your kinks open up dialogue choices, but only for you to choose between almost identical scenes to begin with.

I am pretty sure I missed a mechanic or two, because that is one of Crush's biggest issues. He introduces mechanics that he thinks are cool, but he never knows how to follow up on them and then they are completely forgotten. I can't even imagine what the code must look like, when you to keep track of several of those.

At this point, even the kink system seems forgotten. You get to choose between only three and they barely matter. At some point you would have thought that he might expand those, but that would force you to rewrite a lot.

I think what Crush and the game really could use (apart from a code monkey who does what Crush does in 20% of the time) was some sort of second dev who focuses on width rather than progressing the story. Let Crush progress the story and let the other guy expand what's currently there. Then again, Crush would need to know where to go with the story in the long run in order not to cause some overlap.

ffive · Aug 27, 2023

vicaddict said:
From the very beginning there was a mechanic where people liked or disliked certain anwers. It is still there. That has never been used.

It's never been used because it's all complete sham and can't be used -- aside from couple early cases most characters don't have functional variable(s) to store their liking/respect, and the game doesn't actually record and tally these likes/dislikes, merely displays them as part of scene text. It's pure window dressing.

(that isn't to say it'd be impossible to calculate overall relationship for a given character, even now. But it'd involve checking which of all potential relationship changers the player has picked in their play through, which would be extremely tedious and counter-intuitive way to go about it --and implement it in the first place-- at this point)

MrAnarchy · Aug 27, 2023

Welp, he’s released the “polished” update. It seems he’s bowed to pressure and has decided to force the character on the “innocent, wide eyed, waifu, prude” path. Which essentially renders my main play through dead in the water. Looks I’m out on this game.
I’ll check back in 6 more years to see how it’s doing.

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