economic stimulus package: west virginia

Legzman

what the fuck you lookin at?
bad idea...bad, bad idea...
 
I saw the Fox news report on this story and they for the most part approved of the idea.But that is not surprising they probably would like the kids to be singing "praise the lord,pass the ammunition" at the same time.Those culture wars keep Fox busy.:bowdown::eek:
 
Why is this wrong?

There is nothing wrong with kids learning about hunting and wildlife, and that includes proper care and respect for guns. The decreased number of those with various, wildlife and reserve licenses is actually hurting the environment as various states rely on both the conservation, hunting and other seasons these people participate in. If they don't, then it will be left to rangers, on the government's dollar.

It has been shown over and over that hunters are far more considerate, concerned and knowledgeable about the environment and wildlife than the average person. Even worse are many closet environmentalists who think they know better, but their assumptions are based on ignorance. West Virginia has the slogan "Wild, Wonderful" for a reason, there is a lot of ecosystems in the state that various license holders help preserve.
 

Facetious

Moderated
I was a school child (barely) when I learned how to handle a gun.

It offered me a damn good heads up on what not to do if . . (?) I sure as hell wasn't gonna go snoopin around my papa's stuff with my friends, find a gun and blow some brains out ! :1orglaugh

I actually learned to drive a Stepside Chevy at the age of ten on dirt roads.

Only a hypercritical media or politician could make this out to be a big deal (political football) :dunno:

Heck, back in the day, so I hear, (IIRC, 50's & early 60's), many public high schools had a rifle ranges 'til the spooks of the era in the political realm taketh ye program awayeth !
Pupils weren't shooting each other because personal responsibility was a virtue up to about (approx) 1962.

As for the econ stimulus part of the equation, "West by God Virginia" is a relatively small state . . . those numbers in the article appear a bit ^ !
I take it that that's the emphasis of the post ?

Another thought - With the price of groceries and the genetic manipulation (cloning etc.) of livestock and such, this might not be such a bad idea .
 
so this bill proposes that public schools teach kids about hunting? why don't we just make a bill that provides more public schools and puts the focus on literacy instead, being that WV has some of the worst rates in the nation?

Believe it or not, I actually don't think this IDEA is such a bad one. Enabling (or should I say alowing) poor people to be able to support themselves off the land is one of the best thing that you can do to combat poverty. In other words, let them tap into the resources that they allready have that are not being put to use, or at leats not being used by them.

except this will not help the national economy. People who know how to hunt and who don't feel a strong relationship with the government, not to mention are broke and living in a shack, are not going to pay for a permit or license. Teaching people to be self-sufficient and not having to rely on the economic system to provide for them isn't going to get them more invovled with investing in the economy.

And I really don't think that people who hunt for SPORT have any respect for the land or for the animals. I don't think anyone can say that they do unless thier intentions are simply to leave them alone and thier homes intact and let them live thier lives as God and nature intended.
 
so this bill proposes that public schools teach kids about hunting?
The state sees a deficiency in an area, where fewer and fewer citizens are meeting an optional, but needed (by a portion of the populous) civic duty. It's really just another vocab program.

why don't we just make a bill that provides more public schools and puts the focus on literacy instead, being that WV has some of the worst rates in the nation?
Everything in balance. Throwing more money at something that is already done doesn't always solve the problem. Making kids take yet a 3rd class in the same thing can sometimes have worse effects.

Here in Florida, they've finally started to end replacing recess with a 2nd or even 3rd math class when students are failing. Sometimes you can't just keep throwing more academics at some kids, especially when you take away some necessary extra-curricular.

Believe it or not, I actually don't think this IDEA is such a bad one. Enabling (or should I say alowing) poor people to be able to support themselves off the land is one of the best thing that you can do to combat poverty. In other words, let them tap into the resources that they allready have that are not being put to use, or at leats not being used by them.
It's more than that. It has everything do with conservation and the environment. If the citizens of West Virginia don't help assist with that, then the state has to either expend the resources to do so, or just let the issues get worse.

Animal population control is necessary. As are conservational efforts that people actually pay licenses for to be a part of. Hunting is just one aspect. It not only nets the state revenue, but more importantly, replaces the manpower and services that they normally would have to do themselves.

except this will not help the national economy. People who know how to hunt and who don't feel a strong relationship with the government, not to mention are broke and living in a shack, are not going to pay for a permit or license.
Sigh, I think you're missing the point.

Teaching people to be self-sufficient and not having to rely on the economic system to provide for them isn't going to get them more invovled with investing in the economy.
Sigh, I don't think they're looking at that. They're trying to get future citizens to help maintain the state's environment and wildlife. Less and less citizens are showing interesting is obtaining those licenses and assisting with that.

And I really don't think that people who hunt for SPORT have any respect for the land or for the animals. I don't think anyone can say that they do unless thier intentions are simply to leave them alone and thier homes intact and let them live thier lives as God and nature intended.
Then you wouldn't know the first thing about what they not only do for the environment, but what they do to help the environment. If hunters don't help control some of the wildlife population, and if wildlife groups don't help with related endeavors, it falls on to the state (and its expenses) to do so, regardless.

I've never hunted. But I remember the first time I caught my first fish when I was very young. It wasn't an adult catfish. I distinctly remember my father telling me that I must throw it back. All I could remember was that I wanted to keep my "prize," until my father explained to me many things, and continued to do so every time we went out.

But it doesn't matter what you or I think. Ever talk to someone with the US Game and Wildlife, or even just a National Park Ranger? They could really "fill you in" why it's very important that hunters and other conservationalists exists. We've grown up with the attitude that guns and hunting are bad. It's quite the opposite.

Furthermore, what's the first thing most people do with their first gun? They hold it wrong. They hold it stupidly. They hold it dangerously. They do a lot of other, stupid things. Teaching kids to respect conservation, to respect the environment, to respect wildlife, to respect guns is never a bad thing. In fact, teachers who are in a classroom are the worst to do so, or even the ones that are big naturalists are often prevented from teaching these details because they are not "political correct."

We've created mass ignorance with the stigma that "this is bad" is classic Mr. Mackey-type non-sense. Hunters have always been extremely helpful for the park service and are some of the best conservationlists that a state can rely on. You fail to understand this, as do most people, because there are fewer and fewer that do. And states are starting to feel that burden. West Virginia is one of them, because it has massive reserves and other areas of increasing concern.

Being that I visit West Virginia regularly, and the lack of citizens assisting the states in these endeavors, maybe it's time I end my own ignorance and take the time to show interest in where I can help.
 
so this bill proposes that public schools teach kids about hunting? why don't we just make a bill that provides more public schools and puts the focus on literacy instead, being that WV has some of the worst rates in the nation?

Believe it or not, I actually don't think this IDEA is such a bad one. Enabling (or should I say alowing) poor people to be able to support themselves off the land is one of the best thing that you can do to combat poverty. In other words, let them tap into the resources that they allready have that are not being put to use, or at leats not being used by them.

except this will not help the national economy. People who know how to hunt and who don't feel a strong relationship with the government, not to mention are broke and living in a shack, are not going to pay for a permit or license. Teaching people to be self-sufficient and not having to rely on the economic system to provide for them isn't going to get them more invovled with investing in the economy.

And I really don't think that people who hunt for SPORT have any respect for the land or for the animals. I don't think anyone can say that they do unless thier intentions are simply to leave them alone and thier homes intact and let them live thier lives as God and nature intended.

Sorry, I think you make a lot of assumptions from some sort of stereotype.

All hunters and outdoorsmen I have ever met were very conciencious and very responsible about maintaining a pristine environment.

I think the plan while unconventional will teach kids respect for firearms. I think this type of education has always done that.
 
Assumptions ...

Sorry, I think you make a lot of assumptions from some sort of stereotype. All hunters and outdoorsmen I have ever met were very conciencious and very responsible about maintaining a pristine environment.
I'm not a hunter and I've never handled a gun. But like you, I have met many hunters, outdoorsmen/women and conservationalists. Where people are get their ideas these days is beyond me.

The only rationale I can think of is that too many people today watch way too much TV for their "facts." Anyone who is regularly involved with conservation and wildlife programs directly, and not "armchair activists," know otherwise.

In fact, part of the problem is the dwindling base of such individuals. I really should get involved more with these efforts myself. It's a civic duty people take up, and it seems many states need more people to do than are as of late.
 
Places like West Virginia are in deep deep economic trouble.I know this from family members.My father was born and raised in WV until he left to join the navy in 1945.He had been a very poor farm boy with 12 sisters.So I have a LOT of cousins on his side of the family and I don't think any of them are still there.Stay on the farm or mine coal were for the most part there choices if they stayed and all correctly figured out other places had more opportunitys.
Just look at the population numbers historically and you can see that with some fluctuations, overall they have been losing population since their high in 1950.

Historical populations
Census Pop. %±
1790 55,873 —
1800 78,592 40.7%
1810 105,469 34.2%
1820 136,808 29.7%
1830 176,924 29.3%
1840 224,537 26.9%
1850 302,313 34.6%
1860 376,688 24.6%
1870 442,014 17.3%
1880 618,457 39.9%
1890 762,794 23.3%
1900 958,800 25.7%
1910 1,221,119 27.4%
1920 1,463,701 19.9%
1930 1,729,205 18.1%
1940 1,901,974 10.0%
1950 2,005,552 5.4%
1960 1,860,421 -7.2%
1970 1,744,237 -6.2%
1980 1,949,644 11.8%
1990 1,793,477 -8.0%
2000 1,808,344 0.8%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_virginia
 
I'm not really sure where the need to defend hunting is coming form on here, being that the second paragraph of my original post said that I think people SHOULD hunt.

AFA, I don't know what assumptions and stereotypes you think I am making, since the only contrary statement I made was I think that someone who doesn't seek to preserve ecosystems intact isn't a real conservationist.

the one thing that I really don't agree with is that hunting is neccesary to protect against "overpopulation" of wildlife. there's like 80% fewer wildlife today than there was 100 years ago, and probably about 80% less hunters too.
 
As long as it's not mandatory I don't see anything wrong with them teaching it. However I don't like the fact they are trying to do it for some economic advantage. It seems like their doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

In some ways I do feel sorry for the people in West Virginia, but on the other hand I also know that a lot of them while poor also aren’t as backward or dumb as people think they are and it's a bad idea to underestimate them.
 
If they'd taught us how to use guns instead of some of the absolute CRAP, maybe I would've like phys. ed. better.

I mean, damn, I have not found an opportunity to use my rope climbing skills. Let's not even mention basketball.
 
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